1
JUDICIAL COMPENSATION COMMISSION MEETING
HELD ON 1/23/2001
Meeting held on Friday, Tuesday, January 23, 2001,
at the First Circuit Court of Appeals, Courtroom "A,"
1006 North Third Street, Baton Rouge, Louisiana, 70804,
commencing at 9:46 a.m. and concluding at 10"37 a.m.
JUDICIAL COMPENSATION COMMISSION COMMITTEE MEMBERS:
(MEMBERS PRESENT)
THE HONORABLE ROBERT "BOB" H. MORRISON, III
CHAIRMAN, JUDICIAL COMPENSATION COMMISSION
Chief Judge, Twenty-First Judicial District Court
20180 Iowa Street
Livingston, Louisiana 70754
CONFERENCE of the COURT OF APPEALS APPOINTEE
JAMES J. COLEMAN, SR., ESQ.
Judicial Compensation Commission
Vice-Chairman
COLEMAN, JOHNSON and ARTIGUES
321 St. Charles Avenue
New Orleans, Louisiana 70130
Phone: (504)586-1979
LOUISIANA STATE BAR ASSOCIATION
APPOINTEE
THE HONORABLE NED DOUCET
JUDGE, THIRD CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEAL
202 W. Main Street
Lafayette, Louisiana 70501
Phone: (318)262-1202
GOVERNOR'S APPOINTEE
(Members continued next page)
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1 (MEMBERS PRESENT CONTINUED):
2 THE HONORABLE MICHAEL S. INGRAM
JUDGE, FOURTH JUDICIAL DISTRICT
3 300 St. John Street
Monroe, Louisiana 71201
4 Phone: (318)361-2270
LOUISIANA DISTRICT JUDGES
5 ASSOCIATION APPOINTEE
6 THE HONORABLE WILLIAM T. KLEINPETER
JUDGE, PORT ALLEN CITY COURT
7 P.O. Box 93
Port Allen, Louisiana 70767
8 Phone: (225)346-4702
LOUISIANA CITY JUDGES ASSOCIATION
9 APPOINTEE
10 THE HONORABLE CHARLES D. JONES
LOUISIANA STATE SENATOR
11 141 Desiard Street, Suite 315
Monroe, Louisiana 71202
12 Phone: (318)342-2040
PRESIDENT OF THE LOUISIANA
13 SENATE APPOINTEE
14 THE HONORABLE ARTHUR J. LENTINI
LOUISIANA STATE SENATOR
15 2551 Metairie Road
Metairie, Louisiana 70001
16 Phone: (504)838-8777
PRESIDENT OF THE LOUISIANA
17 SENATE APPOINTEE
18 THE HONORABLE DANIEL R. MARTINY
LOUISIANA STATE REPRESENTATIVE
19 131 Airline Drive
Metairie, Louisiana 70001
20 Phone: (504)834-7676
SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF
21 REPRESENTATIVES APPOINTEE
22 MS. SIBAL S. HOLT
AFL-CIO
23 P.O. Box 3477
Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70821
24 Phone: (225)383-5741
LOUISIANA SUPREME COURT APPOINTEE
25
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1 MEMBERS NOT PRESENT:
2 THE HONORABLE JOSEPH F. TOOMY
LOUISIANA STATE REPRESENTATIVE
3 P.O. Box 163
Gretna, Louisiana 70054
4 Phone: (504)361-6013
SPEAKER OF HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE
5 APPOINTEE
6 THE HONORABLE WILLIAM NORRIS, III
former Chairman, Judicial Compensation
7 Commission
Judge, Second Circuit Court of Appeal
8 P. O. Box 1528
Shreveport, Louisiana 71165-1528
9 Phone: (318)227-3700
CONFERENCE OF THE COURTS OF
10 APPEAL APPOINTEE
11 STAFF PRESENT:
12 TIMOTHY J. PALMATIER, C.P.A.,
Attorney at Law
13 Chief Deputy Judicial Administrator
Louisiana State Supreme Court
14 Judicial Administrator's Office
1555 Poydras Street, Suite 1540
15 New Orleans, Louisiana 70112
Phone: (504)568-5747
16
JAN JORDAN, ESQ.
17 Attorney for the House Judiciary
Committee
18 Legal Research and Writing Instructor
Paul M. Hebert Law Center
19 Louisiana State University
Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70803
20 Phone: (225)388-1122 or
(225)767-6476
21
MS. DIANE MERRITT, Secretary
22 Judicial Compensation Commission
State Capitol
23 Twelfth Floor
Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70804
24
REPORTED BY: JANE BORRELLO
25 Certified Court Reporter
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1 VICE-CHAIRMAN COLEMAN:
2 Good morning. Why don't we have
3 roll call.
4 MS. MERRITT:
5 Mr. Coleman?
6 VICE-CHAIRMAN COLEMAN:
7 Present.
8 MS. MERRITT:
9 Judge Doucet?
10 JUDGE DOUCET:
11 Here.
12 MS. MERRITT:
13 Ms. Holt?
14 MS. HOLT:
15 Here.
16 MS. MERRITT:
17 Judge Ingram?
18 JUDGE INGRAM:
19 Here.
20 MS. MERRITT:
21 Judge Kleinpeter?
22 JUDGE KLEINPETER:
23 Here.
24 MS. MERRITT:
25 Senator Jones.
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1 SENATOR JONES:
2 Here.
3 MS. MERRITT:
4 Judge Morrison?
5 JUDGE MORRISON:
6 Here.
7 MS. MERRITT:
8 Senator Lentini?
9 SENATOR LENTINI:
10 Here.
11 MS. MERRITT:
12 Representative Martiny?
13 REPRESENTATIVE MARTINY:
14 Here.
15 MS. MERRITT:
16 Representative Toomy?
17 (No response).
18 MS. MERRITT:
19 We have nine members present.
20 We have a quorum.
21 VICE-CHAIRMAN COLEMAN:
22 And as for the approval of
23 the minutes, I think they have been sent out to
24 everyone. I so move. Second?
25 JUDGE INGRAM:
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1 Second.
2 VICE-CHAIRMAN COLEMAN:
3 I would like, since I'm temporarily
4 handling the Chair, to call to your attention
5 what a good job Judge Norris has done, and I
6 would like to circulate a resolution and have
7 it made part of our minutes. And I will read
8 the resolution because I would like to see it
9 approved by the whole Commission.
10 As the members of the Judicial
11 Compensatoin Commission have noted the recent
12 resignation of Chief Judge William Norris, III,
13 as Chairman and member of the Commission, and
14 whereas Judge Norris has diligently and
15 faithfully carried out his duties as a member
16 of the Commission since his appointment by the
17 Conference of the Court of Appeal Judges in
18 October of 1997 and subsequently as Chair of
19 the Commission from January 13th, 1998, to
20 December 15th;
21 Now therefore be it resolved that the
22 members of the Judicial Commission express
23 their grateful recognition and appreciation for
24 his outstanding service to the citizens and
25 judges of the State of Louisiana, and that a
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1 copy of this resolution be presented to Judge
2 Norris and inscribed by the membership of the
3 minutes of this proceeding on this 23rd day of
4 January. Do I hear --
5 JUDGE DOUCET:
6 I move.
7 VICE-CHAIRMAN COLEMAN:
8 Move. Any seconds?
9 JUDGE INGRAM:
10 I second.
11 VICE-CHAIRMAN COLEMAN:
12 All those in favor signify by
13 saying "aye."
14 (Reporter's Note: All members respond
15 affirmatively).
16 VICE-CHAIRMAN COLEMAN:
17 Any opposed?
18 (Reporter's Note: No response).
19 VICE-CHAIRMAN COLEMAN:
20 So ordered. And I will pass it
21 around for those of you that haven't signed it.
22 JUDGE DOUCET:
23 Mr. Coleman, may I make a remark,
24 please?
25 VICE-CHAIRMAN COLEMAN:
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1 Yes.
2 JUDGE DOUCET:
3 On behalf of the Judiciary,
4 Judge Bill Norris did such a tremendous job
5 last year, he worked so hard. He feels like he
6 let us down because this thing didn't pass.
7 Well, last year, as we know, it was impossible
8 to pass; but on behalf of the Judiciary we also
9 want to commend him for what a great job he
10 did. And it was impossible. We gave him an
11 impossible task last year, but he did a
12 tremendous job for us.
13 VICE-CHAIRMAN COLEMAN:
14 Well, I certainly can testify to
15 the fact that he traveled all over, he came
16 down to New Orleans quite often, he had many
17 meetings that he came to and tried to pass this
18 resolution; but at that time it seemed the
19 legislature just wasn't ready.
20 I now have another very nice duty and
21 that is to introduce to the Commission our new
22 member, Judge Robert "Bob" Morrison. He's the
23 Appointee of the Conference of the Court of
24 Appeals Judges to the Commission. He was born
25 in Charlotte, North Carolina in 1946. He
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1 graduated from Southwestern in Memphis, and
2 that's now the Rhodes College, and received his
3 law degree from L.S.U. in 1970. He practiced
4 law with the firm of Fayard, Morris and Decune
5 (spelled phonetically) in Denham Springs from
6 1970 until 1988. And during the pendency of
7 his law practice was President of Livingston
8 Parish Bar Association, President of the
9 Twenty-First Judicial District Bar Association,
10 and a member of the Louisiana State Bar
11 Association's House of Delegates. In 1998 he
12 was elected to the Bench of the Twenty-First
13 Judicial District where he is now Chief Judge.
14 As was the case while he engaged in private
15 practice, Judge Morrison has held numerous
16 positions of honor, respect, and responsibility
17 among his peers and the public, including:
18 President of Louisiana District Judges
19 Association from 1998 to 1999, a member of the
20 Louisiana Budgetary Control Board, a member of
21 the Judges Supplemental Commission Fund
22 Committee, and is a Legislative Chair of
23 Louisiana District Judges Association.
24 It is my pleasure to welcome Judge
25 Morrison to our Commission, and I would like to
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1 have the honor of making the motion that he be
2 made Chairman of our Commission. Do we have a
3 second?
4 JUDGE DOUCET:
5 I so second.
6 MR. COLEMAN:
7 Second. Any others
8 nominations?
9 (Reporter's Note: No response).
10 VICE-CHAIRMAN COLEMAN:
11 Hearing none, by acclamation of
12 all of us, Judge Morrison will now be our new
13 Chairman. So move.
14 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
15 Thank you. Let me echo the remarks
16 that were made by Judge Doucet. I worked on
17 behalf of the District Judges Association last
18 year and I can attest to the extreme amount of
19 hard work put in by Bill Norris and we all do
20 owe him a lot of thanks for the effort that he
21 made.
22 We will move on at this point to other
23 business and I'm going to ask Jan Jordan to
24 give us a report as far as the Review
25 Commission.
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1 MS. JORDAN:
2 Mr. Chairman and members of the
3 Committee, I am Jan Jordan and I am the
4 attorney for the House Judiciary Committee.
5 Yesterday the Compensation Review Commission
6 met and they adopted two resolutions as far as
7 pay raises for elected officials of the State,
8 and I have a rough draft. The final report has
9 not been approved yet, so all I have is a rough
10 draft of what the recommendations are. And the
11 recommendations are: That the Governor's
12 salary be increased from 95,000 to $150,933;
13 that other statewide elected officials, their
14 salaries be increased from 85,000 to $125,933;
15 and that would be for the Lieutenant Governor,
16 Secretary of the State, the Attorney General,
17 Treasurer, Commissioner of Agriculture,
18 Commission of Insurance, and Commission of
19 Elections. Also that these salary increases
20 shall be included from existing revenues of
21 each department.
22 The effective date of the one-half of
23 the salary increase would be effective on July
24 1st, 2001; and the remaining one-half would be
25 effective on July 1st of 2002.
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1 As far as the recommendations for the
2 legislative salaries, they recommended that the
3 unvouchered expense allowance be discontinued.
4 This amount was, I believe, a $500 amount; that
5 the annual salary of each legislator would be
6 $41,500, and that would be a raise from their
7 present salary of $16,800. That the salary of
8 the Speaker of the House and the President of
9 the Senate be raised from 32,000 to $72,750;
10 that the pro tem of both the Senate and the
11 House be raised from 24,500 to 51,500; and that
12 the Chairman of the Joint Budget Committee, his
13 salary shall not exceed that of the President
14 of the Senate and the Speaker of the House.
15 The effective dates of these increases
16 would be: One-half of the salary increase
17 shall be effective when the salary increase for
18 teachers in Louisiana public schools in the
19 total amount of $3,000 on that date becomes
20 effective, and then only after that condition
21 is met and one year has elapsed from that date,
22 from the date of the first half of the
23 increase, then this remaining one-half of the
24 salary increase becomes effective.
25 The other recommendation was for a $500
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1 per month vouchered expense for House and
2 Senate members be increased to $1,500 per
3 month, and this replaces the $1,500 a month
4 vouchered supplemental-expense allowance that
5 only the House members got and the Senate
6 didn't. And that is roughly an overview of
7 what the Compensation Commission did yesterday.
8 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
9 Thank you. Are there any questions
10 or comments by any of the members?
11 REPRESENTATIVE MARTINY:
12 Jan, you said they were doing away
13 with the $500 unvouchered expense, right?
14 MS. JORDAN:
15 Yes.
16 REPRESENTATIVE MARTINY:
17 And now, in the end, you just said
18 that -- and then I thought I heard you say they
19 were also doing away with the House, with the
20 $1,500 a month or whatever.
21 MR. JORDAN:
22 Yes.
23 REPRESENTATIVE MARTINY:
24 That they were doing away
25 with that. And what is being increased from
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1 500 to 1,500?
2 MS. JORDAN:
3 My understanding is they have added
4 a vouchered expense account. And so, my
5 understanding is that there were two separate
6 expense accounts, one for 500 and one for
7 1,500, and they are combining that into one
8 $1,500 vouchered expense account.
9 REPRESENTATIVE MARTINY:
10 All right.
11 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
12 All right. Anyone else? Any
13 questions? Ms. Holt?
14 MS. HOLT:
15 Was there any kind of restriction,
16 attachments, whatever? You know, a lot of the
17 conversation around the State has been:
18 "Legislators do a lot of business with the
19 State because none of them make a decent
20 salary." And no matter what we say, it's a
21 full-time job. But if we are going to pay
22 full-time pay, was there any kind of
23 restrictions to them doing business with the
24 State or families, or any discussion in that
25 area?
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1 MS. JORDAN:
2 I was only present for a portion of
3 the meeting, and during the portion where I was
4 present, that was not discussed. But I was not
5 there the whole time. And also I wanted to add
6 the per diem is a per diem for each day the
7 legislature is in session, which is $103, which
8 is based on the federal level; and the per-diem
9 is capped for attending meetings during the
10 interim.
11 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
12 Yes, sir? Mr. Martiny?
13 REPRESENTATIVE MARTINY:
14 I don't believe that we -- I think
15 we are prohibited from doing business with the
16 State right now; the legislature is. I don't
17 know that there would be any need in
18 implementing this pay raise, not that I believe
19 that's going to be implemented, but that it
20 should be predicated on that. You know, I
21 think there's already a statutory authority
22 which prohibits us from doing business with the
23 State.
24 MS. HOLT:
25 And that may be true, but I know I
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1 read an article a couple of months ago where
2 Hanemann made 760 some ought thousand dollars,
3 somebody else made 300. I mean, how are they
4 making money off the State if that is a
5 prohibition?
6 REPRESENTATIVE MARTINY:
7 I guess I can speak from personal
8 experience as I am in that article. I don't
9 represent the State, but I have represented the
10 sheriff, various sheriffs for the last 20
11 years. But, I mean, I'm specifically
12 prohibited from doing work --
13 MS. HOLT:
14 Directly is what you talking about?
15 REPRESENTATIVE MARTINY:
16 -- for the State. Right.
17 And so, and I believe that that prohibition --
18 there may be those that wished that prohibition
19 applied to everybody, I mean, to everything;
20 but, I just want to make a point: There is a
21 prohibition for us doing business with the
22 State.
23 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
24 Any other questions, comments?
25 (Reporter's Note: No response).
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1 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
2 All right. Thank you, Ms. Jordan.
3 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
4 Also, Ms. Jordan, while
5 you're not sitting down, I understand there was
6 a discussion as to potentially drafting
7 legislation with respect to the Judicial
8 Compensation Commission. Could you also
9 address that issue?
10 MS. JORDAN:
11 I spoke with Mr. Palmatier
12 yesterday and we were looking at the statutes
13 which are in your packet that affect the
14 Judicial Compensation Commission. And what our
15 concern was, was in Revised Statue 13:46 and
16 47, and I have also composed some draft
17 legislation entitled H.L.S. 01-Judicial
18 Compensation. And Revised Statue 13:46-B
19 states about the Commission submitting its
20 recommendation concerning Judges' salaries to
21 the legislature 60 days prior to commencement
22 of any regular session of the legislature in an
23 even-numbered year. That report may be
24 submitted every two years at regular session of
25 the legislature in an even-numbered year. So,
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1 my initial thought was there was no problem as
2 far as not issuing a report this year because,
3 as the statute clearly says, "every two years."
4 But when you look at Revised Statute 47, it
5 states: "Salaries recommended in a report
6 shall take effect on the first day of July in
7 the year in which the report was submitted to
8 the legislature." So that concerns me. And I
9 think that we may need some clarification
10 language. What I did is, on page 1 (lines 15
11 through 17), after I talked about submitting
12 the report in the even-numbered years, I put:
13 "If the recommendations in the report are not
14 adopted by the legislature by the current
15 resolution in an even-numbered year, the
16 Commission may submit its recommendation to the
17 legislature 60 days prior to the commencement
18 of the legislature in an odd-numbered year."
19 You all might want to work on that
20 language. I didn't know if you wanted, rather
21 than just "recommendations," we can do
22 something on "any amendment to the report,"
23 that type of thing. Then down at 47, I put,
24 "The salaries recommended in the report shall
25 take effect on the first day of July of the
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1 year in which the recommendation in the report
2 is approved by the Commission." And I think
3 that clarifies your problem of: Since they
4 didn't approve it last year, it would have to
5 be retroactive; which you can't do.
6 And then I just have a copy of the
7 resolution. And in that, basically all I did
8 was change the years so that the amounts would
9 stay the same, that it would be submitted --
10 that it would become effective July 1st, 2001;
11 July 1st, 2002; and July 1st, 2003.
12 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
13 Yes, Mr. Martiny? Do you want to
14 address that?
15 REPRESENTATIVE MARTINY:
16 We also want to put in language
17 that would allow, that in the event that a
18 governor were to include it within the call of
19 any special session, that we could consider it
20 during a special session. Are we married to
21 regular-session consideration of that, of that
22 resolution?
23 MS. JORDAN:
24 By this language, yes.
25 REPRESENTATIVE MARTINY:
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1 No, but if we were to put it
2 in there, is there any problem with saying
3 that, where it says that you can consider it
4 in the odd-numbered years? Or say we could
5 consider it also in any special session where
6 it was made the subject of that call, and then
7 we'll get some other language to make the
8 effective date -- I don't know where you would
9 -- if you had had a special session after July
10 1st of that odd-numbered year, then it might
11 get confusing there.
12 MS. JORDAN:
13 We could take out the effective
14 date and have that resolution rather than the
15 statute. If you wanted, we could add language
16 about "in any odd-numbered year," or "in any
17 special session of the legislature which the
18 Governor calls."
19 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
20 Any other questions, comments?
21 JUDGE INGRAM:
22 Yes. I just simply would like to
23 point out to the group and to the Commission,
24 and some of us have been here from the
25 beginning and are aware of it; when we studied
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1 the Commission in other states we found that
2 many of those states, their statutory language
3 allowed approval of the Commission report by a
4 majority of either House; and if we are going
5 to go amend or go file an amendment, we might
6 consider inserting language to that effect.
7 And I'm not suggesting it, I'm simply
8 mentioning it.
9 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
10 Any other questions or discussion?
11 (Reporter's Note: No response).
12 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
13 What type of action would this
14 Commission need to take as far as requesting
15 consideration of this resolution?
16 VICE-CHAIRMAN COLEMAN:
17 We have time limits, I think. I
18 think we have to take some action. It has to
19 get to them within 60 days, isn't that right?
20 MS. JORDAN:
21 What I had suggested to Tim is
22 that if you all did a motion to -- and
23 I don't know what you want to entitle it; if
24 you want title it just "further
25 recommendations," or "amendment to the
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1 even-numbered-year report," which would be the
2 2000 report, that if you all made that motion
3 and approved it, you could sign something today
4 to meet your 60-day deadline and hope then that
5 Governor doesn't call a special session, that
6 you can get this change in legislation in the
7 call, and then in the regular session do the
8 resolution.
9 MS. HOLT:
10 "Motion to amend the report"?
11 MS. JORDAN:
12 Or "Motion to amend the
13 recommendations of the report," or "supplement
14 the recommendations of the report." The only
15 thing that we need to do to change the --
16 MS. HOLT:
17 The report is the first thing, and
18 that is to make that motion to that.
19 MS. JORDAN:
20 Well, the problem in the report is
21 the report has the dates of July 1st, 2000,
22 2001, and 2002; so, all the amendment would do
23 would be to change it to 2001, and 2002, and
24 2003 to avoid the retroactivity problem.
25 MS. HOLT:
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1 Well, let's pass the resolution to
2 basically amend, and I will make a motion to do
3 that, to change the dates. And then we go on
4 and take the motion to amend the report.
5 JUDGE KLEINPETER:
6 I second.
7 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
8 Do we want to consider Mr.
9 Martiny's comments on that as far as that? I
10 mean, I don't know if that goes into this
11 motion or not. I think it is an excellent idea
12 that we expand it to include any special
13 sessions in which that --
14 MS. HOLT:
15 Yeah, I'm sorry. Maybe we need a
16 formal motion to do that, so I will withdraw my
17 motion.
18 REPRESENTATIVE MARTINY:
19 My discussion dealt with the
20 proposed amendment to the statue. I think the
21 problem that we were going to run into is,
22 under current law we -- I don't believe we have
23 the authority to come up with a new
24 recommendation of that. Am I right? Or, I
25 mean, the question in my mind is not whether
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1 we can come up with another resolution, the
2 question in my mind is whether we can re-submit
3 a resolution that we submit in an even-numbered
4 year to be considered by the legislature in an
5 odd-numbered year and simply adjust the
6 effective date.
7 MS. JORDAN:
8 That is why I suggested that we
9 have legislation. The problem is, is that
10 you're going to be out of your 60-day deadline
11 if you don't go ahead and do it. And so that
12 is why I was suggesting follow-up legislation.
13 Then it clears up any problem that it's
14 definitely allowable.
15 REPRESENTATIVE MARTINY:
16 But the statute that I see -- I
17 see. We have submitted the report 60 days in
18 advance of that.
19 MS. JORDAN:
20 Right, but the problem is, is the
21 report, as submitted, recommends that the
22 salaries be increased on July 1st, 2000.
23 REPRESENTATIVE MARTINY:
24 I understand.
25 MS. JORDAN:
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1 And so, unless you do some
2 type of supplemental or amended letter saying
3 "this is just a follow-up to the 2000 report,"
4 you're correct. The law, I don't think, let's
5 you do a 2000 report. It says to "submit a
6 report in even-numbered years to the
7 legislature." And that is what the problem is.
8 Because the report, as given to the
9 legislature, you can't accomplish what you want
10 with that report because it has different dates
11 in it than what you would need now, so that's
12 why I suggested that you go into a special
13 session, clean up the statute, and then go in
14 with the resolution at the regular session.
15 SENATOR JONES:
16 You're going to accomplish the same
17 purpose by -- and I understand, I think, what
18 you're suggesting. But, practically, you could
19 accomplish the same purpose if we approve the
20 raise by just putting the language in the
21 Appropriation Bill; obviously it won't be
22 retroactive. But what you're trying to
23 accomplish, as I appreciate it, is the fact
24 that the resolution last year made the salaries
25 effective July 1 of 2000. Obviously you can't
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1 do that. So, you want to pass a motion for
2 consideration for legislation to change it from
3 July 1 of 2000 to July 1 of 2001?
4 MS. JORDAN:
5 Well, correct, that would be one
6 motion, just to amend the recommendation in the
7 report. Then the second motion would be, and I
8 believe that is what they were discussing with
9 Representative Martiny, what changes if any you
10 all want to the legislation itself, to the
11 statutory body. And that is what
12 Representative Martiny was talking about with
13 the special session not just in odd-numbered
14 years.
15 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
16 So, does anybody see a problem with
17 us amending the recommendation that was made
18 last year, just to change the effective date of
19 implementation? And, you know, I mean, it's
20 still out there on the table for whatever
21 action --
22 SENATOR JONES:
23 I think the original attempt,
24 legislative attempt, was not to change anything
25 substantively.
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1 REPRESENTATIVE MARTINY:
2 Couldn't we accomplish the same
3 thing by saying rather than going and come out
4 with another resolution which by law right now
5 we don't have the authority to come out, if we
6 change the law to say: "If for any reason the
7 report is not approved by the legislature in
8 the even-numbered years, the legislature may
9 consider it in an odd-numbered year or during
10 the special session"? And the legislature
11 would then have the authority to adjust it as
12 far as the effective dates only. Not change
13 the -- I mean, the idea as I understand it that
14 we did last year was five, five, and five.
15 Obviously the five percent from 2000 to 2001 is
16 gone, but if the legislation would say that we
17 take the same resolution that we planned for
18 last year, consider it in an odd-numbered year
19 and just change the effective dates so it would
20 then be July 1 of 2001, 2002, and 2003, that
21 way you're not changing the resolution at all,
22 the resolution remains intact, and we're
23 changing the law.
24 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
25 I defer to you all's expertise on
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1 this, but do we run into a problem where it has
2 to be a straight-up or down acceptance of the
3 recommendation, and the recommendation includes
4 a year gone by? Is that a problem?
5 SENATOR LENTINI:
6 Well, that is set by statute. So,
7 if we amend the statute, the statute would -- I
8 think it still ends up being straight up or
9 down. All we are doing is, rather than running
10 -- my concern is that we are issuing a
11 resolution that let's say goes into effect, and
12 right when it is about to happen somebody files
13 a lawsuit and says, "Well, thank you very much,
14 but you had no authority to issue that
15 resolution." Where this way we are still --
16 the legislature is acting on a resolution that
17 was passed in nineteen -- and then in 2000, but
18 it now has the additional authority, while
19 acting on that, to not changing it
20 substantively; I guess some might argue the
21 substance, but all we're doing is effectively
22 changing the effective date because of the fact
23 it was not acted upon in those even-numbered
24 years.
25 VICE-CHAIRMAN COLEMAN:
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1 Would you have any problem with the
2 legislature passing, before they get to ours,
3 passing another resolution? It seems to me we
4 are going to have to go at it twice, but it
5 gets the new one passed before we can submit
6 our report. In my opinion, the only reason for
7 the two-year clause was to keep the Judiciary
8 from coming back each year for a raise. That
9 was the only reason for it. And I think
10 there's a lot of wording in the resolution, in
11 the discussion about it: "We want it so they
12 can't come back." We are not coming back, all
13 we are doing is asking them to reconsider what
14 we had last year.
15 REPRESENTATIVE MARTINY:
16 The question is going to be, "Will
17 it be adopted this year?" And then come back
18 next year with another report; and I think that
19 jeopardizes our position.
20 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
21 Judge Ingram?
22 JUDGE INGRAM:
23 I think that we have got two issues
24 here. One is, we are talking about getting the
25 legislature to amend the legislation as
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1 Representative Martiny has suggested. The other
2 thing is: How do we change the report? I will
3 remind everybody that the last time we were
4 before this last session of the legislature, we
5 were there seeking pay raises. The Commission
6 had to come back into session and amend its
7 recommendation to the legislature. Now, that
8 can be done by a simple act of this Commission.
9 Now, we wound up with I think a four-percent
10 raise one year, and a four-percent raise the
11 next year; and with the understanding that we
12 would not come back to the legislature until
13 the year 2000. And I believe that, if memory
14 serves me correctly, that was done in 1996.
15 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
16 So, you're saying there was some
17 precedent for an amendment to the
18 recommendation made by this Commission?
19 JUDGE INGRAM:
20 That is right.
21 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
22 And therefore, I know it is a
23 two-phase thing, I think you probably had to
24 start off with this as an amendment and then we
25 have to have the enabling legislation that
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1 you're discussing also.
2 SENATOR JONES:
3 I don't see how that would be a
4 problem with what Representative Martiny is
5 seeking to do. But I think that ultimately if
6 there was ever any question about it, once it
7 got -- once we put the language in the
8 Appropriation Bill that it's effective 2001,
9 that the latest expression; that's that. But I
10 think out of an abundance of caution, one of
11 the things I'm concerned about is from a
12 practical/political standpoint is having the
13 legislature, whether it's voting to change the
14 dates or anything else, when you're dealing
15 with this pay raise it is a practical/political
16 situation, and whether or not they think
17 they're voting on it two or three times or
18 whatever. And I know House members know
19 better, but I'm sure some Senators might not be
20 up to speed on it. But I have some concerns
21 about having dealt with this issue last year
22 whether or not that is something that,
23 practically, would be in the best interest.
24 But I think the way you set it out,
25 Representative Martiny, is something that we
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1 could pass. But if you didn't want to do it
2 that way, obviously we put language in
3 Appropriation Bill that is effective July 1,
4 and that's that. And you don't have to -- and
5 then this Commission could not be labeled as
6 having tried to tamper with it or otherwise
7 violate the statute in an odd-numbered year or
8 anything else. The legislature makes it clear
9 that the pay raise is effective July 1 of 2001.
10 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
11 The only thing that we have really
12 got a time line on potentially here is
13 getting -- if there is a requirement that we
14 put this thing in 60 days prior to the session,
15 any proposed amendments to the legislation, I
16 understand what you're saying and I think you
17 might be perceived, at least, as, you know,
18 taking too early a step or a force in the
19 legislature to take, you know, some action.
20 And certainly the legislation, if that needs to
21 be amended, can be treated at a later date.
22 But this Commission, if we have to make any
23 kind of report or amend the report that has
24 already been made and there is a time line on
25 that, then that's what we are kind of bumping
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1 up against. Is that not right?
2 MS. HOLT:
3 Charles, wouldn't they still have
4 to vote on it? Because you have to have an
5 enabling piece of legislation as well as the
6 appropriation. You have to have the
7 resolution. You have to have it.
8 SENATOR JONES:
9 That's true.
10 JUDGE INGRAM:
11 Senator Jones, are you intimating
12 that if we went through this two-tier process
13 of changing the legislation in a special
14 session that the opponents of any pay raise in
15 the legislature would seize that as an
16 opportunity to kill it then?
17 SENATOR JONES:
18 Yes, sir.
19 JUDGE INGRAM:
20 Thank you.
21 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
22 Mr. Palmatier?
23 MR. PALMATIER:
24 I just want to make a little point,
25 perhaps Grace Barry who has helped us could
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1 look at these statutes. She was unable to
2 attend this morning, her child is sick. An
3 alternate interpretation is to say that these
4 statutes do not limit introduction to
5 concurrent resolutions to approve the
6 recommendation of the Commission to only
7 even-numbered years. The term "if approved" in
8 Revised Statute 13:47 seems to be, it purports,
9 in settling the question. Since the salary
10 recommendation would take effect in July of the
11 year in which the report was submitted, if
12 approved by current resolution, then it
13 logically follows that the salary
14 recommendations would not take effect in July
15 of that year if the recommendations were not
16 yet approved by concurrent resolution.
17 However, the effective date of a salary
18 increase should not completely vitiate the work
19 of the Commission, remove any authority of the
20 legislature to act upon a report timely
21 submitted, which we did last year, nor
22 completely obscure the intention of the
23 legislature when the law was passed. So, it
24 would seem clear that the salary increase would
25 take effect in July in the year in which the
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1 legislature approves the recommendation of the
2 concurrent resolution. So, I'm not sure -- the
3 statute doesn't preclude the legislature from
4 introducing an internal resolution in an
5 odd-numbered year. So, I think we have
6 complied with the report in the even-numbered
7 year. If the resolution was filed and not
8 acted upon, nothing in the statute, I think,
9 precludes them from acting on a resolution in
10 an odd-numbered year. That is one
11 interpretation that doesn't preclude us from
12 filing these other pieces of legislation to
13 clarify it. I think you are altering
14 interpretations of how this can be implemented.
15 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
16 Any other thoughts, suggestions?
17 (Reporter's Note: No response).
18 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
19 So that under that interpretation
20 we don't have to do anything, correct, Tim?
21 Under that interpretation then we wouldn't have
22 to do anything?
23 MR. PALMATIER:
24 We'd have to have a -- I think the
25 Commission should adopt or vote in favor of
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1 filing the resolution with the new effective
2 dates of the increase in them. And I don't
3 think there is any problem with communicating
4 that to the leaders of the legislative members.
5 And then we can also decide whether or not we
6 want to file these pieces of legislation to
7 clarify the statute.
8 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
9 So that would be like just an
10 amendment to last year's report?
11 MR. PALMATIER:
12 Yes.
13 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
14 Okay.
15 REPRESENTATIVE MARTINY:
16 I think you open yourself up to
17 some type of lawsuit. Because I think the law
18 clearly says that you have to submit the report
19 in the even-numbered year, and what we are
20 submitting is in an odd-numbered year. I mean,
21 I agree. I understand exactly what you want to
22 do. I guess I am just looking at it from the
23 perspective of -- I'm not looking at it from
24 the perspective of what if everybody agrees
25 this is the right thing to do, I am looking at
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1 it from the perspective of: What about the guy
2 that doesn't agree? He looks at the Statute
3 and says, "This is not a report that was
4 submitted in an even-numbered year, this is a
5 new report."
6 MR. PALMATIER:
7 That is a good reason, I guess,
8 too, that you file with the legislation.
9 REPRESENTATIVE MARTINY:
10 I think that way if you go with the
11 legislation that gives the legislature the
12 right to adjust effective dates, then we are
13 still acting on a report that was submitted in
14 an even-numbered year. But because of the fact
15 that we are acting in an odd-numbered year, we
16 would then have the authority to adjust the
17 effective date and nobody can question us on
18 the fact it was a new resolution.
19 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
20 Okay. So under that we can still
21 go with an amendment to last year's report just
22 to change the effective date?
23 REPRESENTATIVE MARTINY:
24 Under that amendment you submit
25 the same report and the legislature, if the
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1 Governor allows, if we are able to amend -- I
2 guess if the Governor calls a special session
3 and we amend that law in the special session,
4 when we consider last year's resolution in this
5 year's regular session, the only change that
6 can be made to the resolution is the fact that
7 the raise that would have gone into effect in
8 2000 would instead go into effect in 2001 and
9 go respectively. I think that is the cleanest
10 way to do it.
11 MR. COLEMAN.
12 I don't think the law prohibits it
13 from coming in. The law, the way I remembered
14 it, says: "Thereafter, a report may be
15 submitted every two years in a regular
16 session;" but it says it doesn't prohibit us
17 from going back when it hadn't passed in a
18 regular session. We could ask them to
19 reconsider it. I don't see any prohibition in
20 the law, the way I read it, that prohibits us
21 from going back at an odd number when it wasn't
22 accepted.
23 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
24 So, you would suggest just
25 re-submitting the report that was made last
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1 year?
2 VICE-CHAIRMAN COLEMAN:
3 We would submit it with the change,
4 but it is certainly, also, not prohibiting the
5 Legislative Act going in at a later time too;
6 so you have it both ways.
7 SENATOR JONES:
8 I was just thinking the same thing,
9 that with respect to the motion by this
10 Commission to request the legislature change
11 the date, we can do that by resolution. And
12 obviously, even though the statute limits this
13 Commission to the report every two years, it
14 obviously does not limit the legislature from
15 changing the law as we see fit.
16 So, my thought was, by motion of this
17 Commission, to request that the legislature
18 change the date and not the report. And if I
19 were doing it rather than in addition to the
20 statute that Senator Lentini talked about, I
21 would do that probably later. But if we passed
22 it and the raise was going to be realized, then
23 put the language in the Appropriation Bill;
24 which is a lot easier in a Senate or an
25 Appropriation Committee like this than it is
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1 some other place.
2 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
3 Okay. Well, you want to put that
4 in the form of a motion, Senator?
5 SENATOR JONES:
6 Judge, Chairman; Your Honor, I
7 would move that the Commission adopt a motion
8 requesting that that legislature change the
9 effective date of report (sic) of the year
10 2000; July 1, 2000, to July 1, 2001.
11 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
12 Is there a second?
13 VICE-CHAIRMAN COLEMAN:
14 I second.
15 JUDGE DOUCET:
16 And subsequent dates, the two
17 adjoining dates to that.
18 SENATOR JONES:
19 Yes, sir; and the succeeding dates.
20 JUDGE INGRAM:
21 The only point of clarification
22 about the effective date of the report, do you
23 mean that or do you mean the effective date of
24 the pay raises?
25 SENATOR JONES:
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1 Of the pay raise, not the report.
2 The pay raise.
3 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
4 And that motion has been seconded
5 by Mr. Coleman. Mr. Martiny?
6 REPRESENTATIVE MARTINY:
7 My only concern is I don't think
8 the legislature has the authority to amend a
9 resolution. Wouldn't the better action be to
10 amend the law to give us that authority, and
11 then just do it? Then we can do it? We don't
12 have to -- you know, the problem I have is that
13 if we don't change the law and all we do is to
14 request that the legislature change the
15 effective date, that is no different than
16 asking the legislature, by amendment, to change
17 the resolution to put in different rates. If
18 that's all you're going to do, we don't have
19 the authority to do that. We don't have the
20 authority to do it. Maybe I'm wrong.
21 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
22 Well, the point that you made,
23 Representative, this presupposes that there
24 would have to be some of enabling legislation
25 to accomplish this, but this just gets us on
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1 record as making that request of the
2 legislature. Isn't the way I understood your
3 motion?
4 SENATOR JONES:
5 This Commission is not changing it,
6 you're requesting that the legislature change
7 it. And there's nothing in the law to prohibit
8 us from changing it.
9 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
10 Okay.
11 SENATOR JONES:
12 We can change the Judicial
13 Compensation Statute itself.
14 REPRESENTATIVE MARTINY:
15 And I'm for that. I am not for not
16 amending the law and just hoping that when we
17 get into session we can amend the resolution to
18 change the effective dates. Because I think
19 then you're subject to attack saying, "You
20 don't have that authority." Because under the
21 existing law you have to vote up and down, up
22 or down on the resolution as it exists.
23 SENATOR JONES:
24 Well, I don't think they're
25 mutually exclusive. I think we can do both. My
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1 only question was, and I think that's what
2 Judge Ingram asked, is, from a practical/
3 political standpoint, if you, in the hopes of
4 being successful in this effort is, if you're
5 doing it two, three, or four times at some
6 point. If you have the vote to amend the
7 dates, the questions is whether or not if they
8 look at that from a mere procedural standpoint,
9 you have people who vote for that that would
10 not necessarily vote for the pay raise. So,
11 once you include the motion, not only, you
12 know, if you want to say that the legislature
13 would be -- the request of the legislature to
14 change the date and the other things that you
15 want to accomplish, you can include that if you
16 want to. But I just think that there ought to
17 be some position by this Commission on this
18 date.
19 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
20 Judge Kleinpeter?
21 JUDGE KLEINPETER:
22 My concern is with 13:47
23 which says that, "The salary recommended in the
24 report shall take effect on the first day of
25 July of the year in which the report was
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1 submitted." So, if you do not change that, I
2 don't know how you can get around saying that:
3 "Well, we are just amending last year's
4 report," but then it is not taking effect in
5 the year in which the report was submitted.
6 MS. HOLT:
7 Can I ask a basic question? And
8 maybe y'all understand, but I'm missing the
9 point here. What is the harm or danger? Is it
10 a time thing about not amending the
11 legislation? That I guess all of us agree that
12 if we amend the legislation that kind of cures
13 our problem? I mean, what is the hindrance of
14 not doing that? Can somebody explain that to
15 me?
16 MR. LENTINI:
17 It would have to be done in special
18 session. Before the regular session there is
19 no guarantee it would be included in the
20 special session.
21 MS. HOLT:
22 So it's the time thing. Okay.
23 MS. JORDAN:
24 I think you could probably do
25 it in the regular session. It would be,
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1 obviously, much easier if you had a special
2 session, but you would have to put different
3 effective dates, i.e.; the Statutory laws have
4 emergency effective dates upon signature of the
5 Governor, and then you can make the resolution
6 be effective July 1st. Or if you all want to
7 be real safe, normally legislation goes into
8 effect on August 15th, that would have to be an
9 additional change on the Statute to make it
10 September 1st. But I did want to clarify one
11 other thing as far as amending the resolution.
12 The resolution last year did not pass, so it
13 has no effect. It's nonexistent. Actually it
14 didn't even pass the Committee. So, there will
15 have to be a whole new resolution this year.
16 What I did, I overstruck and understruck from
17 last year's resolution just to show you the
18 changes I was making. It will have to be a
19 resolution entitled "2001 Resolution," and it
20 doesn't have anything to do with what was done
21 last year in the sense that that wasn't passed,
22 so there's no effective law. This is a totally
23 new ball game.
24 SENATOR JONES:
25 Let me ask a question. In the
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1 report that we submitted last year, we did
2 include July 1, 2001, July 1 2002; but we did
3 not include -- what it did not affect was the
4 fact that the pay raise was supposed to go into
5 effect the same year the report was submitted.
6 JUDGE KLEINPETER:
7 By the passing --
8 SENATOR JONES:
9 I am not saying that it passed.
10 What I am saying is that the effective dates,
11 in terms of a pay raise going into effect July
12 1 of 2001, July 1, 2002, that was in the report
13 last year. The problem area is the fact it was
14 not done during the year that the report was
15 submitted; but in terms of the two prospective
16 years are covered in the report last year. In
17 other words, the language of the report last
18 year said that if the pay raise passed, it
19 would be effective July 2000 -- 2001, 2002,
20 2003. But under the -- in the posture we are
21 in now, what we have to correct is the fact
22 that the pay raise was not passed during the
23 year that the report was submitted.
24 MR. KLEINPETER:
25 Right.
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1 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
2 Which is going to take some
3 legislative change to it if it's going to work
4 anyway.
5 MS. JORDAN:
6 That was just why I recommended the
7 change from the first day of July in the year
8 in which the report was submitted to the first
9 day of July of the year in which the
10 recommendations of the report are approved by
11 the Commission. I think that clears up your
12 problem of even/odd. If you submit your report
13 in the even-numbered year and that passed, it
14 rolls over to the odd-numbered year.
15 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
16 Did you have something to say?
17 JUDGE INGRAM:
18 Yes, I do. It looks to me
19 like the easiest way to handle this thing, in
20 light of Senator Jones's motion and what Mr.
21 Palmatier said earlier, is that we just go
22 ahead and change the effective date by
23 resolution here today, change the effective
24 dates of the pay raise, and then re-submit it
25 to the legislature. If they want to take it up
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1 and consider it, fine. We are, you know, at
2 their beck and call anyway. And rather than to
3 ask the legislature to change the effective
4 date, someone pointed out the report was timely
5 submitted last year. And this probably is
6 legal semantics, but it never was voted up or
7 down. And so, you can make an argument: "Well
8 it is still there. The legislature just really
9 hasn't taken any final action."
10 JUDGE DOUCET:
11 Just for clarification, you're
12 talking about Senator Jones's proposal. If I
13 get it right, you are saying that we could
14 submit the report and if we need enabling
15 legislation, it could be by way of the
16 Appropriations Bill?
17 SENATOR JONES:
18 Well, what I was saying, Judge, is
19 that we can accomplish this purpose really by
20 not doing anything if we pass the resolution
21 for the pay raise and we put the language in
22 the Appropriations Bill that the pay raise
23 would become effective July 1 of 2001, 2002,
24 2003. That accomplishes it.
25 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
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1 Well, is there anything that we
2 potentially have to worry about as far as not
3 making any kind of report from this Commission
4 60 days prior to the session then? And if you
5 -- and that is really the only thing, I think,
6 as far as what we do today.
7 REPRESENTATIVE MARTINY:
8 I don't see where you hurt yourself
9 by amending the resolution. That doesn't take
10 away the effectiveness of the first one. You
11 still have -- if you are going to believe that
12 nobody is going to challenge it, and the
13 law -- and you're going to get a favorable
14 ruling or a favorable finding, go ahead and
15 submit the amended one too. In fact, just
16 because the other one passed doesn't mean that
17 you didn't timely submit it in 2000. That way
18 if are challenged on it, then the only question
19 becomes: "Well, we really are in effect acting
20 on the report that was issued," and then the
21 only question is: "Can we change the effective
22 date?" That is why I suggested the other
23 legislation too. That kind of is a fail-safe
24 situation where you cover both ends. I mean,
25 you're surely not prohibiting it from
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1 amendment. There is nothing that says that you
2 can't amend the resolution. But I think there
3 is, at least, a legal question as to whether or
4 not the legislature can consider an amended
5 resolution that was not submitted in an
6 even-numbered year.
7 JUDGE DOUCET:
8 Let's go ahead and pass the
9 resolution.
10 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
11 Okay. All right?
12 JUDGE DOUCET:
13 (Nods head affirmatively).
14 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
15 Would you please call the roll?
16 MS. MERRITT:
17 Mr. Coleman?
18 VICE-CHAIRMAN COLEMAN:
19 Yes.
20 MS. MERRITT:
21 Judge Doucet?
22 JUDGE DOUCET:
23 Yes.
24 MS. MERRITT:
25 Ms. Holt?
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1 MS. HOLT:
2 Yes.
3 MS. MERRITT:
4 Judge Ingram?
5 JUDGE INGRAM:
6 Yes.
7 MS. MERRITT:
8 Judge Kleinpeter?
9 JUDGE KLEINPETER:
10 Yes.
11 MS. MERRITT:
12 Senator Jones?
13 SENATOR JONES:
14 Yes.
15 MS. MERRITT:
16 Senator Lentini?
17 SENATOR LENTINI:
18 Yes.
19 MS. MERRITT:
20 Representative Martiny?
21 REPRESENTATIVE MARTINY:
22 Yes.
23 MS. MERRITT:
24 And Judge Morrison?
25 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
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1 Yes.
2 MR. COLEMAN:
3 That's nine votes.
4 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
5 Thank you. And obviously
6 we will have some other considerations as far
7 as enabling legislation. There was also a
8 request to make a report with respect to
9 commissioners, Mr. Palmatier?
10 MR. PALMATIER:
11 This is just for your information
12 (exhibiting document). In the package is a
13 letter from the two Commissioners of the
14 Nineteenth Judicial District Court indicating
15 that they intend to file the legislation
16 setting their salary at 90 percent of that of a
17 District Court Judge. You will recall the
18 commissioners have appeared before this
19 Commission before. Their salaries are not
20 within the jurisdiction of the Commission as
21 the law presently exists, and they thought
22 their alternatives were to try to get the
23 Commission language changed so they could be
24 included. They would like instead to file a
25 piece of legislation to set their salaries at
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1 90 percent.
2 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
3 Any questions on that?
4 (Reporter's Note: No response).
5 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
6 All right. Any other business to
7 come up before the Commission?
8 (Reporter's Note: No response).
9 CHAIRMAN MORRISON:
10 Motion to adjourn. All in favor
11 say "aye."
12 (Reporter's Note: All members respond
13 affirmatively).
14 * * *
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1 C E R T I F I C A T E
2
3 This certificate is valid only for a
4 transcript accompanied by my blue stamp on this
5 page.
6 I, JANE BORRELLO, Certified Court
7 Reporter in and for the State of Louisiana, as
8 the officer before whom this testimony was
9 taken, do hereby certify that the foregoing 53
10 pages of court proceedings and/or testimony was
11 reported by me in the stenotype reporting
12 method, was prepared and transcribed by me or
13 under my personal direction and supervision,
14 and is a true and correct transcript to the
15 best of my ability and understanding; that I am
16 not related to counsel or to the parties
17 herein, nor am I otherwise interested in the
18 outcome of this matter.
19
20
_______________________
21 JANE BORRELLO
CERTIFIED COURT REPORTER
22 LICENSE NO. 91331
23
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